And a lot of them are filled by people who felt they had no choice and that they would not have lived if they hadn’t gotten out. And I think that all of us have to think about what is it that we’re hearing, and what is it that we’re seeing? If they were going from the South going to the North, and they’d crossed over the border into Illinois or into Ohio, they were afraid to move. And they were able to do what the powers that be North and South were not really fully able to do. Wilkerson: She uses the term “caste” too. Wilkerson: It does. And so, as it turned out, many of the recruiters representing, you might say, the North — they wanted the labor of African Americans from the South but didn’t want the people. Dedicated to reconnecting ecology, culture, and spirituality. Part of it, is that a lot of the people just didn’t talk about it. We get an extraordinary comparison of the history of the two countries. And I’m just going to read it. We don’t get to see the many ways humanity manifests itself. It’s the spiritual aspect. Special thanks this week to Richard Chess, Holly Beveridge, Evan Gurney, Fred Bahnson, and to David Feingold and Barbara Sayer, and all of our friends at WCQS Asheville. Copyright © 2020. Tippett: But it’s also — it’s not — I mean, these three — you show how people continued to create lives, full lives, even with these circumstances and through these circumstances. And they have to actually uncouple the trains because the new place doesn’t have segregation, but the old place had the segregation. Tippett: Well, right. [laughter]. It is distributed to public radio stations by PRX. I’ve always lived in old houses. So the title of the book is The Warmth of Other Suns, which comes from some lines of Richard Wright, another product of this experience, as he was about to leave Mississippi for Chicago in 1927. Oprah promised that she’d call everyone she knew to tell them about the book, which she said had “touched her soul.”. It says “I feared for my life. When Dr. King heard that term applied to him, he was a bit peeved. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. But this is where we are. Every Negro in America is an untouchable. And they — it was about their agency, and their making a decision for themselves, and declaring themselves to be citizens, which they had always been, but it had never been really, truly recognized. It was just a matter-of-fact statement of what it was that he was up against and why he felt he had no choice but to go. These breaches could be as simple as not tipping one’s hat, not stepping off the sidewalk quickly enough. They stayed where they were. The entrenchment and ideological subservience of Indian intellectuals to the west means that it will meet either with adulation or at best with polite disagreement, but it requires ruthless criticism for it is a book that seeks to confuse and mislead and contributes nothing to the real struggle of our times. What has been your experience of being out there with this material? [applause]. People were Italian, Spaniard, English, or Hungarian, but this wasn’t connected to one’s color. Tippett: I want to read — there’s so much else we could talk about. And the work is never done. Instead Wilkerson is concerned with the 2016 election of Donald Trump calling it a “psychic break” in the history of the “world’s oldest and most powerful democracy”. This is sounding very much like 2006 and 2007 for us now. Part of this erasure, is the erasure of the anti-colonial struggle and the attack on Mahatma Gandhi currently very intense in western universities. Wilkerson: I do think that they’re intertwined. Do you know this? Tippett: And as much as we have to deal with it at those other levels, we have to deal with it at this level in terms of who we are. He said to himself, ‘Actually, yes, I am an untouchable. [laughter] Think about how this is really not that long ago in a sense of generations, in the sense of even sort of — I would view it almost cellular memory in the bones of a people. The idea of categorizing people by race grew out of the transatlantic slave trade and the arrival of different people from around the world, to what would eventually become the United States. Racism and casteism are different, foundationally and historically. Image by Jack Delano/Library of Congress, Public Domain Work. And I think “changing your heart” is a synonym for overcoming unconscious bias. Tippett: I’m Krista Tippett and this is On Being. They did not ask to be accepted but declared themselves the Americans that perhaps few others recognized but that they had always been deep within their hearts.”. Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Isabel Wilkerson points this out as she reflects on her epic work of narrative nonfiction, The Warmth of Other Suns. And then, “We may be clueless and awkward around the subject of race, but we know what the Gospel demands. Why is it that basic human response to a person in distress — why is it that first aid cannot be administered to people once they are bleeding on the ground? And one of the things I hear most often when I go out talking about this book — or people write to me constantly, and it’s the same phrase over and over again, “I had no idea.” I hear it over and over again from people who actually were alive at the time that some of these things were going on. “Over the decades, perhaps the wrong questions have been asked about the Great Migration. And what a delight it’s been. He wants to know your father’s history. And I felt that it deserved its own place and recognition. For many, Wilkerson's popular TED Talk about The Warmth of Other Suns was an introduction to her book. On Being is an independent production of The On Being Project. Tippett: And it’s not like they were being welcomed with open arms when they landed in northern cities. So, I want to read a little bit of another moment for me — and this brings us to our moment — another moment in the book that was just heartbreaking. Empathy is not pity or sympathy in which you are — pity, you’re looking down on someone and feeling sorry for them. And the Lilly Endowment, an Indianapolis-based, private family foundation dedicated to its founders’ interests in religion, community development, and education. Every time I talk about it, I gain new appreciation and gratitude and amazement at what they were able to do. I mean, I myself, of course, too, because I was doing the research, and there were so many things I was discovering. I was overwhelmed with the things that I was discovering. It was very early on. I mean, in other words, childhood itself had to be controlled and repressed because it could mean their very lives. And so that meant that — one of the great tragedies of the 20th century is that there were all of these people arriving in these big cities in the North, industrial cities, Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, Buffalo, all of these places, and there were people coming in from parts of Europe, Eastern and Southern Europe, for example, and there were people coming from the South, African Americans — all wanting the same thing. Wilkerson: That’s exactly it. As D. D. Kosambi once said “Almost every statement of a general nature made by anyone about Indian castes may be contradicted”. But old houses need a lot of work. She told me that this was one of the most important books she’d ever read.
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